A buddy of mine turned me on to a pastors’ discussion forum (most of the pastors are from my old Bible school) and it had a question about tithing in it. Below is a question posed by a newly-minted pastor about tithing and the answers of three established pastors. I’ll do what I did with [...]
A buddy of mine turned me on to a pastors’ discussion forum (most of the pastors are from my old Bible school) and it had a question about tithing in it. Below is a question posed by a newly-minted pastor about tithing and the answers of three established pastors. I’ll do what I did with the other tithing post — provide your own comments and then I’ll add my own later this weekend.
Question:
I just discovered that one of our highly visible leaders (a volunteer) doesn’t tithe, and hasn’t tithed for some time. Should I speak to the leader about this, or leave it alone? Should I have some type of policy in place regarding tithing for our leaders and workers? For our church employees? How involved should I be in setting policies for this kind of thing, in monitoring it, or should I just leave it between the individuals and God? What do other pastors do in this regard?
Answers:
Pastor #1:
Church leaders who don’t tithe! Sounds hypocritical, doesn’t it? This is a very sticky subject when it comes to volunteers. Oftentimes volunteers are relatively new Christians with a lot of zeal and little knowledge. For that reason, you have to give them some slack. Proper teaching will most of the time correct the problem. Have special training classes for the volunteers and address this issue. Ignorance should be no excuse on behalf of a well-trained volunteer. A good salesman will tell you, it’s hard to sell a product you don’t believe in nor own yourself.
Paid staff is a different situation. I address this issue before they are employed. If they do not tithe, it is a very good sign that their job is only that, a job. During their yearly evaluation, address this issue. If they continue to be a non-tither it’s only a matter of time before they leave anyway. However, whether they stay or leave, you cannot trust that individual, especially if they handle any church funds. Their heart is not with you and you will not be able to promote nor place them in any major leadership position. I have also found that non-tithers are always the ones who stir up the most trouble. Therefore, you cannot ignore this eventual confrontation for the sake of your ministry.
Pastor #2:
First of all, you must tithe! What you do will reflect in your people. It has been said that everything rises and falls on leadership. Leaders have a greater accountability that those who are not in that place. Not everyone in your church in the ministry of helps is in leadership, however.
People have to have a revelation of the tithe. This necessitates you teaching on this on a consistent basis. Introduce it in your membership/partner class and make membership contingent on several things, one being supporting the church financially with the tithe. People who do not agree to tithe should not be discouraged from attending, but they should not be granted membership status. Or you may want to have two classes of membership and call them: 1.) Partners and 2.) Friends.
Then there must be certain positions in the church that require partnership for a person to function in that role. All church employees who attend your church should be required to tithe. All staff members should be required to tithe, whether paid or volunteer. All persons in any teaching role should be required to tithe. Since the Bible reveals that one who doesn’t tithe is a “robber,” all persons involved with the offering must be required to tithe. You don’t want a “robber” handling church finances in any way.
There are many positions in the church that you may want to allow people to serve in even if they don’t tithe. Some examples would be: Janitor, Grounds Keeping, Hospitality, or maybe even Greeter. As far as monitoring things, you have to start out that way.
As your church grows this can and should be delegated, but only to a most trustworthy person who can handle the knowledge of who tithes and who doesn’t. It has been my experience that those kind of people are rare. Because love covers a multitude of sins, you don’t want to expose a person’s shortcomings to another person in the congregation.
Pastor #3:
For our church, I think it is a must if they are a Pastor on staff. I think that a Pastor on staff that isn’t tithing is the basis of hypocrisy. How can they possibly teach faith and exhort the people if they are unable to function in being obedient to the Lord? They are in disobedience before God and that can bleed right into the blessing of the church. It also tells me that their heart isn’t in the church. As Pastors (in whatever capacity) we have to be held to a higher standard.
How we have determined to monitor this is to have our book keeper watch for changes in the staff’s giving trends. If there is a major shift in giving or if it stops all together over a 3-4 month period, then I want to know about it. Otherwise I don’t personally get involved in the giving records. It helps me stay objective when I preach.
Now how we deal with it? I believe it is based on each situation. I believe that they need to be approached to investigate what the situation is. In some households, one of the spouses handles the bills, so the other person that is the Pastor may not know they aren’t tithing. I had a youth pastor that quit tithing for a period of six months several years ago. In our meeting, he knew that there was no excuse, so I gave him the opportunity to make up his tithes and I removed him (privately) from any interaction with the people from the platform on Sundays for six weeks. Two months later they were gone. It wasn’t easy, but it became obvious that his heart wasn’t in it. Tithing is a heart issue, and unless their heart can be changed, I don’t want them on my team.
We set expectations with each staff member’s position agreement and non-disclosure agreement. This includes the expectation of tithes is mandatory as well as the one hour rule; meaning they won’t leave our church to work at another church within an hours drive.
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My responses was to Pastor #2
2nd Corinthians 9:7 to give as one has purposed (decided) in his own heart some translation say not under pressure (begrudgingly) or compulsion (duty) for God loves a cheerful giver. Pastors you can really show faith by trusting God and preaching the truth about Grace Giving since we are under The Dispensation of Grace and not Old Covenant law-keeping.
You cannot find one New Testament Scripture to the Gentiles to tithe as law and obedience to God. There are many Scriptures on voluntarily giving as in sow sparingly reap sparingly
so why continue to twist and contort scriptures out of context to Gentiles who were not even
included in the Old Covenant contract with God in the first place?
Interesting that the above Pastor said you must tithe to show the congregation faith and obedience. Obedience to whom? Your congregation are not Jews under the Old Covenant of Law but are under the New Covenant of Grace. Grace is a free gift which includes Salvation by faith in the work of Jesus on the Cross that paid in full any debt that was owed. All access to God and answers to prayers are free just by asking in Jesus name. The verse in the New Testament Galatians 3:13 declares “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by being made a curse for us” so there you have it the final words on the curse, therefore it is wrong to revert back to the declaration of the previous curse in Malachi. The
Six hundred plus Levitical laws of Moses which consisted of National Jewish laws and feast, Rituals and Ceremonies were constantly broken which is why Jesus came to fulfill the law in our place and bridge the gap and way back to God. As a leader of a Church you should be ashamed that you made a blanket stereotype that all people not paying tithes should not be in Ministry but you made no exceptions for people out of work or without income. t. Mr. Pastor please tell me where the Apostle Paul , a true man of God mandated tithing to his Gentile Churches? Infact his instructions were to voluntarily give as in 2nd Corinthians 9:7 as one has decided (purposed in his own heart) with pressure or grudgingly because God loves a cheerful giver (the word giver not a payer as in a bill owed). In Acts 20:33 Paul said “You yourselves know I have not wanted anyones gold, silver or clothing but I have worked with these hands for everything me and my fellow companions needed. He repeated this in 2nd Thessalonians 2:9! If many Pastors really studied the concept of Grace and taught Grace Giving it would prevent the Spiritual abuse of using guilt, fear and intimidation to enforce an Old Covenant Law.
Jesus is the better New Covenant Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 8:6 & Hebrews 7:22
Ephesians 2:15 He nailed the requirement of law-keeping to the Cross
The Holy Spirit is now our teacher and guide and He guides us into all truth. Get to know Him and He will cause us to glory in the Cross not our tithe records!
My blessings and answers to prayer are because I have faith in the faithfulness of God and not my own works because it is not by works so no one can boast. Salvation means you are free from the curse of the law and you have access and favor from God when he saved you and called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Jesus said ask anything in his name and it will be done by our Father in Heaven if we are his children. Period and end of discussion !
Pastors can some of you tell me why you hold fast to the tithe law of the Old Covenant yet you are silent on the Sabbath law which was to cease from all activity, work and play from Friday at sundown till Saturday evening. Why are you selecting only the tithe law when God required all of his laws to be kept to be in Covenant? God said to the Jews in Malachi that they had not kept His ordinances the word ordinances or requirements was plural meaning not just the tithe law. You know in your hearts that you are manipulating Scriptures because no one is that dumb not to know that we are not taught by Pastors to keep Jewish laws, ceremonies and Feast in our Christian Churches. Jesus ushered in the Dispensation of Grace which means on the Cross he fulfilled the law and paid for whosoever will receive him free of charge. His payment covers not just Salvation but for the believers health and daily needs free of charge. It should be obvious to everyone that God gave us favor when he redeemed us from the curse of the law by having Jesus stand in our place and be cursed on that Cross in our place Gal. 3:13.
Read Hebrews 7:22 and Hebrews 8:6 which continues on from the one time tithe that Abraham paid Melchizedek to speak of Jesus as a better Covenant than the Old. So teach on keeping the Sabbath also are just shut up about being cursed for not keeping the tithe law. You can’t just enforce one law when all had to be kept. To break one meant they were as guilty as if you broke them all. We are Gentiles under Grace not Jewish Old Testament law because the death of Jesus gives us a new Covenant. Only Jesus kept the law and fulfilled it. We broke it and that is why Peter called it a Yoke of bondage that neither he or his ancestors could bare in Acts 15:10
Jesus paid your fines stop being a brainwashed bible illiterate!
We are living in evil times. Preachers and teachers are so far from the truth and are failing the test. They do not see the bread of life in the fruit of the land but a way to get money. Ever learning but unable to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
[...] post: A Pastors' Forum on Tithing — Smythe Categories: Tithing Tags: bible, christ, discussion-forum, jesus, mine-turned, new-pastor, [...]
My thought, as I pen this, is shaped by the spirit of Rom 14.
Whether volunteer or paid staff, where is scripture and verse that stipulates that they have to tithe in order to function in the church? I find none and so I do not insist or demand this.
Should I speak to the leader about this, or leave it alone?
I’ll watch the leader. Is his love walk solid? is he helpful? does he care about the welfare of others? does he give? if the answer is yes, then I’d go find out if he is in some financial distress. if he is, we’d look for practical ways to bring him welfare and surround him with love. if he is not, I would not press the issue of tithing – it is a non-issue in the church. It is however an issue to the unrenewed mind.
Should I have some type of policy in place regarding tithing for our leaders and workers? For our church employees?
I think there should be a policy. The policy should be clear about the fact that tithing is not mandated in the church. People are however free to give as they purpose in their hearts – on this the word is clear and any other command is extra-biblical. For a church employee, the relationship is not altogether “churchy” there are HR and labour laws that should not be abandoned because we want to legislate the conscience of believers – which we should not do to start with.
How involved should I be in setting policies for this kind of thing,
A minister of the gospel has no business setting policies that rob people of the oportunity to respond willingly from their persuasion in the word of God.
in monitoring it, or should I just leave it between the individuals and God?
Happy is he that does not condemn himself in that which he allows. The matter of tithing is only binding on the conscience of the one who still thinks that the law still governs his conscience. Love is the fulfillment of the whole law.
I appreciate the opportunity to further study this topic. I do think there is something
to be said for clarity about any rules or expectations. Too many word of faith
churches do not clearly address issues in an upfront manner. I appreciate when
leadership attempts to do this. If I personally cannot agree in conscience with
a church’s policy I would not want to get deeply involved there or apply for
a position. It would only lead to strife down the line.
As far as whether there should be a policy about tithing, I find this a problem
because the Word of God does not actually teach or mandate tithing. Therefore
it is a cherished but manmade, tradition. However, given the fact that people
have different beliefs, I feel it is just as important to allow freedom for those
with whom I disagree as I would want them to respect my beliefs. If beliefs
are not foundational to salvation, in my opinion, they are peripheral (not
unimportant). If a church insists upon the tithe, I am not really in agreement
with them on this issue. I respect their beliefs and I would visit there and
be a blessing as I can, but I could not in good conscience apply for staff
position there or work in that ministry regularly as a volunteer knowing this
problem existed. I would visit, hear the Word, and support them financially
and otherwise as led by God, but I would not become a regular member or
give the appearance that I’m agreeing with something I feel is unbiblical.
I would look elsewhere for a home church where I am more in genuine
agreement, not to denegrate anyone but as a matter of common sense
and avoiding strife. I don’t think it’s my responsibility to change their mind
of confront them, unless God leads me to politely give them info. I
don’t want to argue with people as it doesn’t help anyone. If they are open
I might give a leader or pastor a tape series, a url or something to read.
Normally leaders and pastors do NOT want such input from ordinary
believers so I normally pray for them as often they will only be open to
receive such info from another pastor or leader.